Last week stirred up something of a fracas in the DJ community, as Los Angeles club The Cure and the Cause announced a ban on laptops in the DJ booth – the announcement of which then went perdictably viral. That much turned out to be brilliant publicity: club trolls DJs, magazine trolls DJs, “controversy” generates social media traffic.
Here’s the problem, though: once you get past the nonsense about “talent” and laptops, I think there should really be no controversy here. What The Club and the Cure said about laptops and controllers I think is dead-on – and hard to debate.
It’s long past time to face some of the issues happening in DJ booths head-on – and begin to work out just what to do about it.
Talent?
First, some background. This all began when Magnetic Magazine picked up on the announcement in the club:
“Cure And The Cause ANNOUNCEMENT:
No more laptops in the DJ booth.
Unless you’re using it to control VINYL to do a turntablist type of set, a’la Jazzy Jeff type shit, or if you’re doing a LIVE thing where you’re actually programming shit on the fly. Keep your controller in your crib, dont come to work with training wheels. LEARN THE TOOLS OF THE TRADE already. Pioneer isn’t going anywhere any time soon, they ARE the industry standard, so brush up on how to use the CDJs already, get Rekordbox (its FREE) and buy a good USB stick for $40 that will store THOUSANDS of hours of music on it.
We opened this place to showcase talent. So, show us your talent.”
NIGHTCLUB OWNER ISSUES NEW RULE: “NO MORE LAPTOPS IN THE DJ BOOTH”
Of course, the reason I say this is trolling is, they focus the debate on “talent” and “training wheels.” And that’s an unnecessary dig at laptop DJing. There’s not really anything different in terms of technique using an automatically-synced digital player in the form of a Pioneer CDJ and an automatically-synced digital player in the form of a computer with a hardware controller. Also, the implication that using this hardware is an amateur move doesn’t hold water – because there are plenty of big-name DJs playing on laptops and getting paid high fees to do so.
Magnetic Magazine had an axe to grind here, making the assumption that anyone using computers to play bigger gigs looks like an amateur. I think the issue that argument doesn’t really hold weight is that they use mainstage DJ gigs as the basis for discussion. And to turn it around, if I see a tech who can’t handle something as simple as someone showing up with a laptop and controller and one stereo output, I think the tech is the amateur, not the DJ.
And please – let’s not talk about authenticity. DJing is a technique that arose from people misusing turntables and playing records incorrectly, in illegal parties using techniques they made up. The fact that we’re even talking with language like “industry standard” or “tools of the trade” shows how much things have changed. And as for how “real” a DJ set is, I refer to this (parody) article:
DJs Now Deliberately Making Mistakes To Prove They Are Real DJs
Works for me. (Actually, I do genuinely enjoy mistakes now and then, really!)
Clarification: To be clear, I don’t think Kenny Summit’s argument for The Cure and The Cause is really defensible on its own. I think it’s nonsense. I don’t have personal experience with him or the club – and I’m willing to forgive people for saying dumb things – but this was an incredibly dumb thing to say. If you read either the original post or the follow-up interview below, in each the club describes the crux of their complaint being about the DJs showing up to play their club. The problem is, those are all DJs they invited to play the club.
There are two points of failure that involve the club: first, inviting DJs who don’t know what they’re doing, and then, being unable to cope technically with something as simple as connecting a laptop to a mixer. That means the club itself is actually advertising their inability to perform the most simple tasks asked of booking and live tech. Congratulations.
But this really reveals the whole problem: an absurd and artificial debate about talent or skill is masking a more serious problem.
Laptops and practicality
The easy retort to any of this is simple: there’s nothing better or worse about someone DJing on a laptop than someone DJing on a pair of CDJs.
Except, then there’s a problem: if there’s nothing different about someone playing on a laptop, is a laptop worth the trouble?
Finally, after getting roundly roasted online, The Cause and the Cure’s Kenny Summit explained what he really meant.
The entire issue is actually summed up by this one sentence:
“This ban on laptops is a more like a ban on the people who can’t bother to learn how to be a real professional and learn how to setup and break down their equipment without ANY disturbance in the night.”
There you go. This isn’t a discussion about talent; it’s a discussion about practicality. And there’s a combination of failures – human and technological.
Let me unplug this and break it down for you.
1. Laptop setups take up too much space. Here is the single biggest problem. Makers like Native Instruments, Numark, and yes, even Pioneer have made steadily larger gear in order to provide functionality and looks that lets them command premium prices. And bedroom DJs have evidently lapped those devices up. I have to admit, I’ve never seen one installed in a club. But when it comes to DJ gigs, they just don’t work. (Oddly, the one place you probably can make them work is mainstage gigs, where you can easily demand a few feet / a meter or two on your rider – which is why Magnetic’s article above makes no sense.)
The S8 is huge. As it includes a mixer, it’s a great studio/home tool. And it works well in mainstage gigs where you can demand space on the rider. Where it doesn’t work: crowded DJ booths, which haven’t installed these in anything approaching the quantity that the ubiquitous CDJ has been.
2. Opening acts – the ones most likely to host beginners – are the ones that most need you to play a CDJ. Now, the next problem. DJ gear manufacturers, again even including (ironically) CDJ manufacturer Pioneer, are pushing beginners to use laptops. But the one time when you really shouldn’t show up with a laptop is probably the warmup act or the first-time gig. (One easy solution: use smaller gear, like the Native Instruments Traktor Kontrol Z1, or a Faderfox. Unfortunately, all the manufacturers seem to be going to impractical coffin-sized controllers instead.)
3. DJs don’t know what they’re doing. Now, a human failure. I’ve actually been hearing this a lot from clubs lately, and I’ve struggled with it first-hand. A DJ shows up and doesn’t know how to connect and disconnect a mixer. Problems ensue. But then, the easier solution is, just show up with USB sticks and use the CDJ – no re-connecting required.
4. Techs are lazy and easily annoyed. Not all of the blame here falls on DJs. With so many DJs around, you might wonder why clubs are booking DJs who don’t know what they’re doing in the first place. And likewise, of course, the reality is that a lot of techs can’t be bothered to connect and re-connect gear. Maybe, frankly, they’re not great techs. But that’s the reality. Again, the way to reduce friction is simply use CDJs.
5. Laptops are struggling to provide features that the CDJs don’t. For all the supposed controversy, I think laptops have easily established themselves as live performance tools. In fact, even as external gear has gotten more common (Elektron boxes, AIRA machines, and the like), you very often see them cropping up next to a laptop. But that’s live sets. As Magnetic and The Cause and the Cure concede above, some DJs do make impressive live performances on laptops. But most simply duplicate the functionality of a mixer and a couple of CDJs. And that’s the whole problem.
Live sets – necessarily, wonderfully, more chaotic than warmup DJ sets at your local club. Photo (CC-BY) Mixtribe – Japanese House Mafia.
The fake controversy around this has led the opposite direction from the actual cause. The assumption is that laptops and CDJs are somehow fundamentally different. But the failure of the laptop is really that it often isn’t fundamentally different. Even as developers like Serato and Native Instruments have poured extra functionality into their tools, with sampling and remix features that effectively make for “hybrid” DJ/live sets, the rank and file DJ population has mostly ignored that functionality.
Connecting and re-connecting gear is in general no small problem, either. It’s tough to find good techs or supportive clubs. Even in big clubs, simple disagreements about whether to play CDJs or vinyl, or something as banal as whether to use a Pioneer or Allen & Heath mixer, have created trainwrecks of re-cabling and wasted space in the booth. A subject for another story is how even mixer use may evolve. As rotary mixers or the recent Richie Hawtin outing have demonstrated, there’s potential for new innovation in DJ mixers. But it’s unlikely many clubs will go to the trouble of supporting all that variety.
The elephant in the room: whatever you may read on the Internet, a lot of serious DJs are giving up on laptops in many situations. The reasons haven’t gotten much press partly because they’re so painfully obvious. It’s easier to carry to USB sticks than a huge controller and laptop. It’s easier to play a gig where you don’t have to connect and reconnect gear than one where you do. It’s safer to not rely on a tech than it is to rely on one.
But I don’t think that’s an entirely good thing. It’d be a shame if all DJing were defined by a single hardware player. And maybe what this should reveal is that there’s a difference between straight-up mixing sets and hybrid and live sets.
So, what needs to happen next if we’re going to see any progress?
1. We need more compact DJ controllers for laptops.
2. Software developers will continue to need to develop functionality that deviates from what you can do on decks. Though, since they’ve started to do that already, then —
3. The DJ community needs to be more supportive of hybrid sets. That isn’t easy, either – it requires DJs developing better skills, bookers supporting those DJs, audiences supporting those sets, and techs who can cope with the added technical overhead.
In the meanwhile, all of this explains why the CDJ has become that industry standard. On one hand, we’re all a bit lazy. On the other, those CDJ sets are perfectly fine – because mixing and selection is so much of the game at a party.
And none of that is likely to make this story go particularly viral. But it is, I think, something a lot of experienced DJs thought when they saw the debates.
And meanwhile, I’m ready to stage some sort of experimental DJing retreat where we go off in private somewhere, free of any club, and try to break as many rules as possible. Because, well, that’d be a party. For nerds, anyway.
The buy in for gear needs to be considered as well. Most people already have a laptop, meaning they can grab a controller for between $250 to $500 and get going. Compare to CDJs where you’re pricing yourself at thousands of dollars for two decks and a mixer, or vinyl where you’re spending around $10 a track. I know many djs, very good ones who can play most people under the table, who wouldn’t be able to play at all if they had to drop this much money on a setup. It’s classist gatekeeping bullshit to say that they’re somehow lesser because of how they play.
Absolutely. No question. I mean, bottom line, laptops are as much an industry standard as the CDJ is.
That said, I think there are ways of practicing on CDJs without buying them. And there are things that can be done to make laptops more practical.
This. There’s no reason why you cannot practice and assemble your collection/playlists at home on a laptop and take a bit of time to transfer that into a Rekordbox format. Most things translate just fine and you won’t have to risk someone stealing your gear or spilling beer over it.
It’s also about the ease of collaboration and a spirit of presenting music together. Much more pleasant to do B2B sets when all you need is to swap USB sticks. It’s very annoying when a DJ claims they “cannot sync back” to you once their laptop set is over, not to mention the fuss about cabling/rearranging setups every hour…I feel most of the times using a laptop is just not warranted, they do have a good point.
Mostly agreed but not in the rekordbox part. I don’t want to use it but if I wanted there is no app for ipad which is my tool. No laptop no desktop but not cdj neither. I could do it for being “friendly” with clubs or other djs but not for Pioneer, sorry. They have made mistakes in the past ranting over controllers and they still claim themselves as “standard” crappling their cdjs to rekordbox “step” like itunes in ipad (also pain in the ass and criticable of course) and it doesn’t seems well to me.
So my set is near from easy to integrate in club because I’m not going to plug myself into the dj mixer, I will do it as 2 wireless microphones from mainstage and let them make THEIR adjustments. I was doing it for others over 20 years (from radiostations or block parties to small venues and big clubs) and this kind of “standarization” is an insult to creativity and the confirmation of mediocrity in the form “do what everybody do” instead of “do you own thing” spirit of djing itself.
We could find solutions and Pioneer propose its own but times have changed from technics supremacy and cdj never was the “next standard”, it was DVS and now Pioneer is playing dirty once again.
Finally the blame is for low quality, pushing buttons, laptops, blahblahblah… Never is their problem or concern because Pioneer is perfect for the “Trade”… Sorry but no. Outside there are lots of amazing artist, stablished or newcomming, who deserve respect for their workflows and tools and people like the Club manager of this topic is the representation of elitism and moneymaking in the worst side of the “scene”. He failed in the preparation more than the dj and now blame him? Blame laptops?
Make an statement for your business is ok but take the flag of “non-laptops-booth” is marketing, weird one.
That’s actually two problems I have been trying to tackle for a while now.
Problem is, to an extent society is starting to look at education as a hand out.
Right now I am in the process of planning to gain access to a local heritage site library that was donated to the city by Philanthropist and Industrialist Andrew Carnegie.
It was at some point in the past liquidated by the city and now sits vacant. It causes me to wonder whose bright idea that was and why they thought it would be a good move.
(Long story short I want to eventually teach there and help provide access to.. anybody really, that wanted to learn how to mix, mixdown, or perform )
The other thing I’m trying to do is start a Kickstarter to fund I and my girlfriends first album. Which will eventually allow me to set up our 3d printer and fabricate inserts for my other flight case. The one that will eventually hold my mac mini. In that way I’ll be able to have the computer off the table and out of sight while I use a small ten inch monitor only for track selection.
Quite!
Pour this man a beer.
Artistic purists are nauseating.
There needs to be a revolt against the douchebags.
And who decides who the “Douchebags” are?
The revolters.
Yep. It’s interesting how threatened people can become when faced with something different, in, I dare say, any subject or context. I have a friend who thinks laptop DJing is for the “talentless”; this person produces music with a laptop and synthesizers. I know another person who thinks that people who make music with computers and synthesizers are talentless. I once overheard a conversation where a jazz guitarist hated distorted, overdriven, or even clipped guitar tones, and that people playing guitars with such effect where hiding their lack of talent behind a wall of noise.
I don’t hear anyone complaining about how people who shop at Ikea are talentless for not building their own furniture, or how lazy others are for using calculators…
DJ’s are people skilled in the craft of compiling playlists on the fly for club nights. Period.
For years, the music market hype has tried to push the idea that making playlists of other people’s music in a laptop or selecting and changing vinyls and pressing play are activities that are supposed to be on the same creative and artistic playing field as a piano virtuoso playing Rachmaninoff, or an electric guitarist playing in a rock band, or a sax player improvising with a jazz ensemble, or an African choral group improvising call and response melodies, or even a hip-hop turntablist (which I can compare to percussionists).
As someone who’s done electronic music for years (and performing with keyboards, live fx and loops), I have to say I don’t buy the DJs-are-musicians-mantra.
So yes, this probably makes me an elitist douchebag. Sue me.
As for the article – banning people who DJ with laptops – yes, it’s ridiculous. It’s just a different tool for creating the club’s soundtrack.
Well NI is trying to push forward (or rewind forward) with remix decks and stems bringing the remix/mashup and dubwise to improvisation. Maybe not directly composition (more than exporting from maschine in home) but producers who “perform” (it’s djing? It isn’t?) are also like those example you described from virtuosos like Jeremy Elliis, to Fretless fader applied to melody scratching (more than percusion sorry) and open the possibility to “Jazzism” even whe I agree these aren’t the usual A>B which hold the cdj paradigm.
Also it doesn’t necessary mean “only suitable for live performers” in the play an instrument. The direction of an Orchestra is also playing music and the modulations performed by hand movements are similar (volume, tempo, nuance, submix… And in scratching playhead direction!) plus sensivity in crowd empathy (is this important in classical music?) aka “crowd reading” or awareness hearing are also skills related to emotion and rythm… Making the crowd throught dance floor part of the instrument itself.
Maybe few djs understand this and they don’t know how to plug an rca but I think all this “problem/topic” is not so black or white one.
What I like much more than playlists are DJs looking to challenge themselves in turntablism. Where they will throw on literally any record they are handed and make the sound their own.
Also: where does the pendantry stop? You’re eventually going to come back around to “you’re not really an artist because you’re playing other people’s tracks.” How much longer do people have to rehash the same fuck-around do-nothing arguments?
Well, I agree – but part of why I thought this merited a response was, as I said, this *complete nonsense* was masking some other practical matters that actually I thought weren’t nonsense…
Find a solution almost for those interested. I’m fitting myself in my right place forgetting about djing because it’s not worth anymore to me. I left promoting 15 years ago and now I left this “game” and focus myself more on music. At last, it’s all about the music, right?
The “pedantry”, as you call it (I prefer to call it standards) stops when *this* ceases to exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xuuPvMAg_w
No it’s not a shred video, this happened and we all let it happen.
Also, I could understand up and coming DJs that can’t purchase expensive Pioneer DJ gear to learn it inside out. Don’t know any good solutions, maybe getting used gear or Pioneer releasing cheaper versions for such training. This is what you get when all a DJ could afford is a laptop and a cheaper controller. Now, this is different if the up and coming DJ gets one of those massive laptop controllers as first investment — not that good of an idea as a small controller (such as Reloop’s MixTour) have plenty of features for any kinds of gigs.
That’s a separate story, but to be honest I haven’t met many DJs who *have* bought CDJs – even among those who could easily afford it. So people are solving the practice problem. And I’m surprised there aren’t more people talking about it.
Either you have friends who have them or a friendly club owner who lets you practice. I think Pioneer should think a little bit more how to train people to use their gear instead of forcing them to purchase 2k of equipment.
If I would be a club owner I would get a desk like solution to put on top of the CDJs and a clear marked audio input telling (put your controller input here and the mix level is on channel 5.) Problem solved.
All true – except you won’t find recent CDJ models in certain clubs. It’s astonishing how many venues still have darn old 800mk2s and expect you to bring your own gear if you want something else. And then there are scenes that predominantly rely on vinyl-only for some reason. As someone who prefers digital, timecode or a faderfox is often my only option.
Honestly, if there were proper current CDJs/XDJs for reasonable prices, and if they were actually as common as Pioneer would like them to be, I’d prefer just to take a couple of USB sticks to the club. In the meanwhile, it’s DVS for me.
That’s a very good point…
I will still take a look at the new XDJ lineup.
DJ is not an artform, making music is. DJing is a skill, get it through your heads people. Go learn an insturment and then talk talent. You are all morons if you think djs have talent. Hahahaha
Not really but due it’s not so difficult to mix nowadays then it brokes bad people, djs against sync, against laptops, against remixing, against everything outside their confort zone (and elitist bubble). ITOH you could find people pushing the djing boundaries (with any tool from turntable to ipad) and make these tools the instrument, turntablism, controllerism, dubwise, live looping… These are tools, skills and instruments in the right hands like laptops obviously. Laptop and internet left the chance to anyone to call moron another without the need of state oneself as most educated but also keeps you th possibility to talk and learn one from another and viceversa. It’s a matter of people, almost between humans. With trolls isn’t so easy… Are you an human or troll?
You need to see some proper DJs, dude. Claude Young, Theo Parrish, Terrence Parker, Derek Plaslaiko, Mike Servito, the Black Madonna, Mike Huckaby, Omar S, Francois Kevorkian… DJing is a skill, but rocking a party is an art.
Haven’t seen it in a club, but they could put in the booth what I see in radio stations: an input box, permanently wired, with RCA and XLR jacks for external gear. I have TRS 1/4″ to XLR cables which are PERFECT to plug my NI interface into club systems or (as mentioned above) the radio station. In most cases, kills ground loop hum as well.
And it wouldn’t kill them to build a little shelf that can sit over the CDJs and/or turntables that you deploy for people to set up gear. Or have a counter space reserved for live/DJ setups.
And Cure & The Cause could just NOT BOOK UNPROFESSIONAL DJs WHO DON’T KNOW HOW TO HOOK THEIR SHIT UP.
Yeah, isn’t it convenient how Cure & The Cause managed not to blame their own bookings *or* their own techs? That’s… interesting. 😉
They’re just being invaded by an onslaught of terrible DJs that …
they…
booked. Hrm.
But how will they find better DJs, in the city of …
Los Angeles?! Yeah, that sparsely-populated village with no DJs around. 🙂
If i were to dj off of USB sticks I’d have to, like, organize my music or something 🙁
To the artistically sussed, it’s like banning Seurat for painting in dots. True talent is still out there for you to appreciate and enjoy, given that you spend less time staring at the artist’s preferred medium and bitching about it, and spend more time wiggling your butt on the dancefloor.
For the record, I was spat at once by a punter because of this retarded attitude illustrated above…
people just need things to argue about. my laptop is as much as an instrument as a guitar if not more so. and is def more so then a record or /file player cd player. ill dj at home and put it on periscope haaha then you can dance whereever you are no club necessary.
That’s the way!
A club is differentiating themselves by taking a public stand regarding laptop DJs. No big deal, I’m sure there are plenty of DJs out there that can do it w/o a laptop and others that can DJ at other clubs.
I am sensitive that laptop controllers are not ideal for today’s real club conditions but this is a click bait post Peter. Maybe I just can’t understand why you need a laptop to DJ.. it’s not that hard to learn CDJ or become creative in using other tools with smaller footprint… that may be in the end the whole goal of this “ban on laptops”, to see what else people come up with.
IPads and self-content and powered live gear and… Obviously ryder and playing from the podium or main scenario. I will never play again from dj booth (even having the knowledge from 20 years of technician, promoter and so) due I will make my show and the club should accomodate me and not in the inverse. Hire a tech and stop arguing could be the last phrase in my discursion with a club boss. 😉
thanks. might be hard for me to build something complex. I also find this interesting http://looptimus.com/product/looptimus-foot-controller/
Recently another reader/user point me to midiflow iOS app, take a look!
http://www.midiflow.com/
In my iPad based setup this and AUM mixer are a must have. 😉
thanks!
Good points about laptop practicality. But i think the underlying problem is more fundamental than technology. It’s about intent, making money and a culture that has almost forgotten what DJing is about. You can find my extended thoughts here:
http://www.ronnypries.de/blog/does-the-laptop-kill-the-dj/
would love to see more foot controllers (for using Live with guitar for example) and controllers in general indeed.
Like? There are not so much things one could make with foot and also there are not so much variation in control…
for guitar players I can imagine a more modular approach to add more switches and pedals for more complex controllers. you can control things with your feeds like drummers do which can be interesting too. like tempo setting by tapping your feed.
Tap tempo Is possible with actual foot controllers… But if you are waiting for some “innovation” then take a look at korg littlebits and build your own “prototype” then when it make whatever you need/want go and grab:
-for the cheap>>> arduino or midi kits like highlyliquid or livid brain
-for the expensive and full feautred>>>> teenage engineeren op-lab
I’m based my future setup in iPad plus footcontrol but my goal is simplicity than complexity. Even if I put someday some visualism it will be self generated from music+sensors. Different beast, different gear.
Hm, and what’s about live electronic? I think the laptop is necessary when you’re going to work with samples, because programming the hardware like MPC or Electribe takes a huge amount of time and gives a quite trivial set of effects. NI Reaktor as FX processor can drastically enrich a DJ performance. Agree, that some controllers look like monsters, manufacturers have a broad field for improvement its ergonomics.
Oh, even this club conceded that point.
The laptop is a convenience in live situations, period, as I said above. But it could be more convenient than it is in booth situations.
From 2011 galaxy near us…
http://www.djproaudioinc.com/dj-equipment-sales/the-selector-dj-dvs-line-switcher
Now it’s time to fire some bosses for not knowing this.
Yeah, absurd that I have to say I’ve never ever seen this in a club.
Because is easy to rant than expend money. I can imagine some technician getting mad trying to explain to his/her boss why it should be useful buy one of this. Few years later the moron boss writes a tweet…
so funny that they associate laptops with being without talent while in the same sentence they say unless you’re doing some Jazzy Jeff ish. so in the same sentence they condemned and condoned laptops. it seems they could just book the artists they feel line up with their aesthetic. plus if you really want to get pure they should ban DJing with CD’s, only 1200’s and real vinyl in the DJ booth! haha. they’re going down a road to which there is no end.
oh and “unless you’re using it to control vinyl” haha, actually you use the vinyl to control the laptop, geez…
Why are we even discussing this? One idiot club owner in L.A. makes a pin headed comment, who cares?
LOL! I was wondering what happened to the DJ. Everyone was calling themselves a DJ and they get behind a booth and simply play music from their laptops. Even Karaoke DJs have been doing this. Simply the laziest and sorriest excuse for work, I have ever seen.
Super obvious troll is obvious. They are assuming something about talent and gear when its absolutely obvious to anyone who pays attention that sync exists in both situations.
Anyone given a clear explanation, a technique, and a couple of tables could learn how to beat match. What I have seen is a consistent disregard for setting gains correctly and it’s been getting worse as the years go on.
Finally, I haven’t rocked a pio set up for a number of years but I know with total confidence I could run the fucking things.. My multi-controller setup and the manner in which I had to work on certain aspects of the craft makes my situation is unique and affords me to do a lot regularly that even with four decks would be unfeasible..
At least you can see clearly if a laptop is on or not. This video shows David Guetta (one of the biggest DJ’s around) mixing a set on CDJ’s that are not even switched on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoht05kr4D0. One for the purists to discuss 🙂
It’s my art, it’s my process. Don’t tell me what tools I have to use. Just tell me how I patch into your system.
PS – heard the same bullshit arguments when CD players first entered the scene.
who cares what people use to DJ. Judge with your ears, not with your eyes.
Love you informative talk about laptop . I applaud your post . Thanks a lot for sharing such post .