SonicState got an exclusive hands-on with the new Yamaha line. And the story is becoming clear: the word for these is convenience. You get sleek, minimal design that reduces hands-on control to the essentials, while providing real-time effects and the ability to dial in loads of sounds. The mini keys aren’t a full-sized keybed, but it seems what Yamaha hasn’t done is make something cheaply. Both the sound and apparently physical form are top-of-range, and you don’t sacrifice essentials like MIDI ports. So that bucks some industry tendencies to a race to the bottom. And even if you don’t like these Yamahas, I think it’s important that someone in the industry is doing that apart from boutique Eurorack.
Another reason I’ll defend mini keys – provided these feel good – is that piano-sized keys are just enormous. Recall that part of the reason they’re the size they are is nothing to do with ergonomics and everything to do with the size required by acoustic strings and so on.
We’re hearing US$799 list, but that’d mean a street closer to US$500.
Now, the downside is, you have to choose. Then again, it seems Yamaha is betting on each model appealing to a different audience/genre, which is rather what I’ve gotten chatting with people casually – and this focus also means, unlike the do-anything SYSTEM-1 from Roland, these keyboards are focused on a particular range of controls. That helps keeps the control complement to a minimum.
Prediction: these will be huge sellers, precisely because they aren’t huge. Devices like the iPad have finally convinced people that luxury doesn’t have to mean big, and gigging keyboardists have struggled with luggage long enough. They’re not cheap, fun ways into synthesis in the mold of the Arturia MicroBrute or the KORG microKORG, but they are a chance for people who formerly bought big keyboards just to get the sounds they want to finally downsize. And it seems they may have nailed sound, access, and design. People without the cash will be shouting loudly on the forums, but people with the cash will be quietly making money for Yamaha in the kind of segment the company had more or less ceded lately to competitors.
Kudos to the SonicState lads for shooting this in such detail.
Is there any information about the fact that mini-keys are more convenient? I got classic education with huge enormous heavy weight piano keys and always miss this small keys. You know. They are small, especially when you’re gigging and moving on stage. Those people with money – aren’t they have the same problems? As I watching different live videos – small key keyboards are rare on stage. Really, this toys are for hipsters, but the smarter ones will prefer something more powerful for this money. Am I wrong?
And more – don’t you remember yamaha dx100? The same concept. It was just crap.
I had a DX100 perched atop my Akai AX80 for many gigs in the late 80’s. It was outstanding, And the form factor was welcome.
Well, I think that something smaller being mobile is something of a self-evident statement. 🙂
Muscle memory in the hands can translate to keys of different sizes – ask anyone who’s played, for instance, John Cage’s toy piano suite. The principle difference is action. So, if they’ve successfully translated the action, that’s a big deal.
The experience isn’t identical, but it is translatable. And even with a two-octave keyboard, changing the size of individual keys adds up fast.
“Small key keyboards are rare on stage.” That’s simply not true. The microKORG is I believe the best selling, but keyboards with mini-keys onstage are commonplace. And I’ve seen bands who have several semi trucks to haul their gear around use the KORG, the Arturia, etc.
This appears to be a higher-quality keyboard than the DX100.
Also, the current “standard” size keyboard manual is something of a “modern” development in the history of keyboard instruments. Early instruments had a range of sizes and form factors. A big part of the size of a piano key has to do with the action of a modern grand and later standardization.
What is the reason why standard piano/harpsichord/organ key sizes are as they are? I believe it’s because they were not able to make a smaller mechanism. Not because of the ergonomics. My one hand fingers can reach 15 semitones on a standard keyboard but on a micro size keyboard it’s 20. I have studied piano a bit, never liked it, have several keyboards around and prefer micro keys any time. And I don’t like the classical hammer feel – which also isn’t great when playing anything else but a piano.
Amen!
Is there any information about the fact that mini-keys are more convenient? I got classic education with huge enormous heavy weight piano keys and always miss this small keys. You know. They are small, especially when you’re gigging and moving on stage. Those people with money – aren’t they have the same problems? As I watching different live videos – small key keyboards are rare on stage. Really, this toys are for hipsters, but the smarter ones will prefer something more powerful for this money. Am I wrong?
And more – don’t you remember yamaha dx100? The same concept. It was just crap.
I had a DX100 perched atop my Akai AX80 for many gigs in the late 80’s. It was outstanding, And the form factor was welcome.
Well, I think that something smaller being mobile is something of a self-evident statement. 🙂
Muscle memory in the hands can translate to keys of different sizes – ask anyone who’s played, for instance, John Cage’s toy piano suite. The principle difference is action. So, if they’ve successfully translated the action, that’s a big deal.
The experience isn’t identical, but it is translatable. And even with a two-octave keyboard, changing the size of individual keys adds up fast.
“Small key keyboards are rare on stage.” That’s simply not true. The microKORG is I believe the best selling, but keyboards with mini-keys onstage are commonplace. And I’ve seen bands who have several semi trucks to haul their gear around use the KORG, the Arturia, etc.
This appears to be a higher-quality keyboard than the DX100.
Also, the current “standard” size keyboard manual is something of a “modern” development in the history of keyboard instruments. Early instruments had a range of sizes and form factors. A big part of the size of a piano key has to do with the action of a modern grand and later standardization.
What is the reason why standard piano/harpsichord/organ key sizes are as they are? I believe it’s because they were not able to make a smaller mechanism. Not because of the ergonomics. My one hand fingers can reach 15 semitones on a standard keyboard but on a micro size keyboard it’s 20. I have studied piano a bit, never liked it, have several keyboards around and prefer micro keys any time. And I don’t like the classical hammer feel – which also isn’t great when playing anything else but a piano.
Amen!
Is there any information about the fact that mini-keys are more convenient? I got classic education with huge enormous heavy weight piano keys and always miss this small keys. You know. They are small, especially when you’re gigging and moving on stage. Those people with money – aren’t they have the same problems? As I watching different live videos – small key keyboards are rare on stage. Really, this toys are for hipsters, but the smarter ones will prefer something more powerful for this money. Am I wrong?
And more – don’t you remember yamaha dx100? The same concept. It was just crap.
I had a DX100 perched atop my Akai AX80 for many gigs in the late 80’s. It was outstanding, And the form factor was welcome.
Well, I think that something smaller being mobile is something of a self-evident statement. 🙂
Muscle memory in the hands can translate to keys of different sizes – ask anyone who’s played, for instance, John Cage’s toy piano suite. The principle difference is action. So, if they’ve successfully translated the action, that’s a big deal.
The experience isn’t identical, but it is translatable. And even with a two-octave keyboard, changing the size of individual keys adds up fast.
“Small key keyboards are rare on stage.” That’s simply not true. The microKORG is I believe the best selling, but keyboards with mini-keys onstage are commonplace. And I’ve seen bands who have several semi trucks to haul their gear around use the KORG, the Arturia, etc.
This appears to be a higher-quality keyboard than the DX100.
Also, the current “standard” size keyboard manual is something of a “modern” development in the history of keyboard instruments. Early instruments had a range of sizes and form factors. A big part of the size of a piano key has to do with the action of a modern grand and later standardization.
What is the reason why standard piano/harpsichord/organ key sizes are as they are? I believe it’s because they were not able to make a smaller mechanism. Not because of the ergonomics. My one hand fingers can reach 15 semitones on a standard keyboard but on a micro size keyboard it’s 20. I have studied piano a bit, never liked it, have several keyboards around and prefer micro keys any time. And I don’t like the classical hammer feel – which also isn’t great when playing anything else but a piano.
Amen!
I like the reasoning but still wish they were cheaper, of course. The volcas have left me wanting more companies to follow their lead there, and even at the price they’re going for in the UK – £289 – they’re still just outside of my impulse buy territory. Which is a shame as i’d have preordered the DX already if it had been 200 quid, but thems the breaks!
Give it time; Yamaha might well end up having to drop the price after a few months if they don’t sell. I can see them coming down to £249 before very long at all (and if anyone’s paying attention, that’s my “go price” for a reface DX); they might even make £199 in the New Year sales…
I like the reasoning but still wish they were cheaper, of course. The volcas have left me wanting more companies to follow their lead there, and even at the price they’re going for in the UK – £289 – they’re still just outside of my impulse buy territory. Which is a shame as i’d have preordered the DX already if it had been 200 quid, but thems the breaks!
I like the reasoning but still wish they were cheaper, of course. The volcas have left me wanting more companies to follow their lead there, and even at the price they’re going for in the UK – £289 – they’re still just outside of my impulse buy territory. Which is a shame as i’d have preordered the DX already if it had been 200 quid, but thems the breaks!
Personally i really like their form factor. I’m not sure about the price, it may be 500U$S but if it’s 600 it’s way to expensive.
I guess that the CP and the DX will be the big sellers here, anyways. There’s nothing quite like the DX right now in production.
you still can buy about 3 dx7 keyboards at ebay for this money, which will be 6op instead of 4op DX))
yeah, and hire two persons to lug them all the time, those things are big.
again: form factor.
they are not so heavy, you know)
Personally i really like their form factor. I’m not sure about the price, it may be 500U$S but if it’s 600 it’s way to expensive.
I guess that the CP and the DX will be the big sellers here, anyways. There’s nothing quite like the DX right now in production.
you still can buy about 3 dx7 keyboards at ebay for this money, which will be 6op instead of 4op DX))
yeah, and hire two persons to lug them all the time, those things are big.
again: form factor.
they are not so heavy, you know)
Personally i really like their form factor. I’m not sure about the price, it may be 500U$S but if it’s 600 it’s way to expensive.
I guess that the CP and the DX will be the big sellers here, anyways. There’s nothing quite like the DX right now in production.
you still can buy about 3 dx7 keyboards at ebay for this money, which will be 6op instead of 4op DX))
yeah, and hire two persons to lug them all the time, those things are big.
again: form factor.
they are not so heavy, you know)
is that one and the same guy, once with a beard, once without one?
is that one and the same guy, once with a beard, once without one?
is that one and the same guy, once with a beard, once without one?
I am bummed that the USB port only handles MIDI, not audio.
I am bummed that the USB port only handles MIDI, not audio.
I am bummed that the USB port only handles MIDI, not audio.
Analogue one sounds very similar to my AN1x , wonder if they are mainly the old plg expansion boards
Probably not – the DX is quite new (a DSP, perhaps?) so I’m guessing the CS will be too. Also, the PLG-150AN was 5-note polyphonic, this CS 8-note. But possibly the algorithms from the AN have been ported.
seems like it, it sounds very similar to my AN1x
Analogue one sounds very similar to my AN1x , wonder if they are mainly the old plg expansion boards
Analogue one sounds very similar to my AN1x , wonder if they are mainly the old plg expansion boards
Supposedly 799$ list which is way, way too much. I’d go for one if it was around 300 eur, above 400 eur is too much, I’d rather pick a MS20 mini for under 500 eur.
Supposedly 799$ list which is way, way too much. I’d go for one if it was around 300 eur, above 400 eur is too much, I’d rather pick a MS20 mini for under 500 eur.
Supposedly 799$ list which is way, way too much. I’d go for one if it was around 300 eur, above 400 eur is too much, I’d rather pick a MS20 mini for under 500 eur.
At this point the mini-key debate is moot; they’re here to stay. And a real “pro” will happily play whatever is in front of them and make it sound great. If the build quality is as it seems in these videos, they’ll sell like hotcakes.
Hearing lots of stepping on the CY faders, though. That doesn’t fly in 2015.
Noticed that too. Gross. Good thing it’s the least interesting of the bunch, and that’s hilarious considering one of them is a goddamn piano.
It is a moot point. As far as I am concerned, if it’s got mini keys, its a rack module they forgot to put ears on. unplayable crap.
At this point the mini-key debate is moot; they’re here to stay. And a real “pro” will happily play whatever keyboard is in front of them and make it sound great. If the build quality is as it seems in these videos, they’ll sell like hotcakes.
Hearing lots of stepping on the CS faders, though. That doesn’t fly in 2015.
Noticed that too. Gross. Good thing it’s the least interesting of the bunch, and that’s hilarious considering one of them is a goddamn piano.
It is a moot point. As far as I am concerned, if it’s got mini keys, its a rack module they forgot to put ears on. unplayable crap.
At this point the mini-key debate is moot; they’re here to stay. And a real “pro” will happily play whatever keyboard is in front of them and make it sound great. If the build quality is as it seems in these videos, they’ll sell like hotcakes.
Hearing lots of stepping on the CS faders, though. That doesn’t fly in 2015.
Noticed that too. Gross. Good thing it’s the least interesting of the bunch, and that’s hilarious considering one of them is a goddamn piano.
It is a moot point. As far as I am concerned, if it’s got mini keys, its a rack module they forgot to put ears on. unplayable crap.
“Prediction: these will be huge sellers, precisely because they aren’t huge.”
My prediction is they won’t, because of the price. These should be selling in the $200-$250 range, not $500 street.
“Prediction: these will be huge sellers, precisely because they aren’t huge.”
My prediction is they won’t, because of the price. These should be selling in the $200-$250 range, not $500 street.
“Prediction: these will be huge sellers, precisely because they aren’t huge.”
My prediction is they won’t, because of the price. These should be selling in the $200-$250 range, not $500 street.
I would buy one for $200. Anything more than this isn’t worth it.
I would buy one for $200. Anything more than this isn’t worth it.
I would buy one for $200. Anything more than this isn’t worth it.
Overpriced dogshit. Not much more to say then that. I can only imagine the amount of coke the product demo specialists had to take to pretend to be hyped about this camel fart of a product line.
Overpriced dogshit. Not much more to say then that. I can only imagine the amount of coke the product demo specialists had to take to pretend to be hyped about this camel fart of a product line.
Overpriced dogshit. Not much more to say then that. I can only imagine the amount of coke the product demo specialists had to take to pretend to be hyped about this camel fart of a product line.
Mini-keys have nothing to do with ergonomics and everything about reducing the materials cost and size of the devices. I have yet to play one that didn’t make me immediately feel like I had a fisher price toy at my finger tips. (and no, I am not a classically trained pianist – I grew up on Yamaha keyboards and their actions).
Let me just repeat what I’m hearing you say here:
Mini keys are about reducing the size of keys.
Well… yes. Precisely.
Smaller things are smaller. If you want smaller things, then the smaller thing will be something you like. But you can’t dismiss a thing for being smaller for being smaller.
Mini-keys have nothing to do with ergonomics and everything about reducing the materials cost and size of the devices. I have yet to play one that didn’t make me immediately feel like I had a fisher price toy at my finger tips. (and no, I am not a classically trained pianist – I grew up on Yamaha keyboards and their actions).
Let me just repeat what I’m hearing you say here:
Mini keys are about reducing the size of keys.
Well… yes. Precisely.
Smaller things are smaller. If you want smaller things, then the smaller thing will be something you like. But you can’t dismiss a thing for being smaller for being smaller.
Mini-keys have nothing to do with ergonomics and everything about reducing the materials cost and size of the devices. I have yet to play one that didn’t make me immediately feel like I had a fisher price toy at my finger tips. (and no, I am not a classically trained pianist – I grew up on Yamaha keyboards and their actions).
Let me just repeat what I’m hearing you say here:
Mini keys are about reducing the size of keys.
Well… yes. Precisely.
Smaller things are smaller. If you want smaller things, then the smaller thing will be something you like. But you can’t dismiss a thing for being smaller for being smaller.
Love the implementation of the touch controllers on the DX. I thought they were the standard type of capacitive touch buttons at first.
I don’t need it, but I’ll keep an eye out for a decent price.
Love the implementation of the touch controllers on the DX. I thought they were the standard type of capacitive touch buttons at first.
I don’t need it, but I’ll keep an eye out for a decent price.
Love the implementation of the touch controllers on the DX. I thought they were the standard type of capacitive touch buttons at first.
I don’t need it, but I’ll keep an eye out for a decent price.
Not too impressed.
1) YC&CP: For the price of one of these units you can get a (used) Nord Electro Rack, which beats both of these any day in terms of sound and offers additional sounds like grand piano etc.
2) CS: Nice but no onboard memory – WTF ?!
3) DX: I do like the sound of this one but there are already (even free) VST plugins out there that can perfectly emulate the DX sound plus for the price of this you can get a used DX7 anytime which has the bonus of full size keys, aftertouch and 2 wheels.
I understand these are quite portable but then again how often a year do you really need a keyboard with mini keys to go to the beach ? Even then, for pure composing duties any cheap <70 EUR Casio keyboard will do.
Not too impressed.
1) YC&CP: For the price of one of these units you can get a (used) Nord Electro Rack, which beats both of these any day in terms of sound quality/variety and offers additional sounds like grand piano etc.
2) CS: Nice but no onboard memory – WTF ?!
3) DX: I do like the sound of this one but there are already (even free) VST plugins out there that can perfectly emulate the DX sound plus for half the price of this you can get a used DX7 anytime which has the bonus of full size keys, aftertouch and 2 wheels.
I understand these are quite portable but then again how often a year do you really need a keyboard with mini keys to go to the beach ? Even then, for pure composing duties any cheap <70 EUR Casio keyboard will do.
Not too impressed.
1) YC&CP: For the price of one of these units you can get a (used) Nord Electro Rack, which beats both of these any day in terms of sound quality/variety and offers additional sounds like grand piano etc.
2) CS: Nice but no onboard memory – WTF ?!
3) DX: I do like the sound of this one but there are already (even free) VST plugins out there that can perfectly emulate the DX sound plus for half the price of this you can get a used DX7 anytime which has the bonus of full size keys, aftertouch and 2 wheels.
I understand these are quite portable but then again how often a year do you really need a keyboard with mini keys to go to the beach ? Even then, for pure composing duties any cheap <70 EUR Casio keyboard will do.